Lexus: The hybrid debate blog

I think that the Hybrid Car is a progress that was made due to people wanting to both be Green and to save money on gas. I hope that this is not felt to solve the problem, in that the next advance will not be implemented if any single or various technologies are mandated. It is better to have the free market help find the best way to implement improvements. Find goals, like reducing the use of oil and make polices to make using oil more expensive. (yes, this is another way to say tax ).IE if an additional tax is placed on oil at the import dock or well head, this will increase the cost of the end products and based on supply and demand over time people will use less of this product. There will be cries of how this will harm business and the poor hard working under paid worker or cause disruptions to the economy. For this reason it is appropriate to put a tax like this in
place in stages. (like a .05$ per gallon increases every 6 months for the next 10 or 20 years.
This would cause businesses and people to think about this as they plan on new equipment (cars and trucks), how they get to work and ways to reduce the use of oil with out having the shock to the economy that putting the tax in place all at once would do. It would have the same positive effects with out the government making mandates. One odd side effect is that the net reaction of use might cause the price not to go up as fast as the tax. The only question is what to do with all of that tax money, well that is another question.
I think that it is odd that we look to give tax
breaks to encourage stated policies (that generally go to very few people) and not tax the things that we want to discourage.

I think hybrids will (ideally, at least) just be a step in a much larger process, which means they may never become the main form of transport. As they
reach a critical mass of adoption, other, better
technologies will replace them and start to come
into play. For example, hybrid development will spur plug-in hybrid development which will increase demand for better battery technology and open the way for "pure" plug-ins (i.e. better electric cars). This will bring our focus back to the grid itself, as the
environmental quality of a hybrid/electric is only as good as the grid (if we're building more coal plants to power our electric cars, we're not gaining much). As adoption rates of these various technologies
continue, the biggest impacts, beside environmental,
would be a decreased reliance on foreign oil and a
slowly diminishing oil infrastructure. Personally, I
think the good of these far outweigh the bad, but there would be dangers and potential negatives. I'm concerned, primarily, about what happens as oil money begins to dry up in the Middle East, especially in countries who have bet most or all of their revenues on oil. This transition period could
make an unstable region even less stable.

At gametheoryman:
"The total carbon footprint is still usually lower than with a gasoline engine, since the big power plants are so much more fuel efficient than small gasoline engines that even relatively dirty power plants are cleaner than using gasoline engines."

Sure, power plants are more thermally efficient (large gas fired power plants go up to 60%, a diesel engine goes up to about 35%) but you must take into accound the energy losses of the power grid, which may be as high as 50%.

I personally would like to see hydrogen generation in wind powered plants, or solar hydrogen generation. That way we could convert our gas-guzzling combustion engines to hydrogen powered ones. Perhaps we can't convert the cars themselves, but at least we'll be able to re-use the existing industry. That way we can maintain all our bad habits and postpone the change to a much needed more social way of doing things.

All of my earlier comments were premised on technological advancements in batteries or ultracapacitors coming in doses that can be foreseen from evolutionary improvements on announced research results.

A really big breakthrough in batteries or ultracapacitors that allows quick charges, long life, safety, and low cost would change everything. An electric motor alone would have lower operating costs and a lower initial cost! A real world changer.

See http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_12/pr1101.htm for a just announced potential breakthrough on batteries and http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11/30/edta-conference-secret-eestor-ultracapacitor-info-from-zenn-mot/ for an earlier announced breakthrough on ultracapacitors. Are either really breakthroughs or are they mostly marketing hype?

I'm not convinced that hybrids do any better than diesel for most usage profiles. The exception might be slow crawling city centre journeys. Of course in such environments there is often a public transport alternative which would be even better.

Of course, diesel isn't so common in N. America or Japan.....

Hi Anonymous,

My experience is the Prius outdoes the Diesel in metro slow and go (interferance limited) driving (20 to 65 mph commutes of about 45 min average). This is the ideal efficiency enviorment for the Prius - from May through November this year, it did better than 75 mpg UK here in Chicagoland suburbs on every tank (2 per month, 1000 miles a month). Some tanks were as good as 81 mpg UK.

Better mileage is possible,and others have demonstrated this. But not if one wishes to stay caught up with slow-lane traffic, as I do. Or with tires very much over inflated, as I do not.
donee...

A Plan to Make All Countries Near-Zero Carbon Emitters Within Ten Years

Lighting can be zero rated by converting all Power Stations to Buxton Geothermal Turbine Generators, the heating can be near-zero rated by installing Starlite coatings, that prevents heat escaping, on the walls and ceilings of all premises, and by having electrical heating from renewable sources we cut heating CO2 emissions to zero. Transport can be made near-zero in terms of carbon emissions by ensuring that all vehicles use carbon zero electricity, instead of petrol.
We still have the problem of transport by aeroplane and ship having to use fossil fuels. However, their carbon footprints can be at least halved by having their fuels mixed with water using an ultrasonic dibber. Finally, the power needed for energy can be made entirely of carbon free electricity. New ways of making industry work using electricity instead of the gas that they are used to will be needed, but these are not insurmountable problems given that the Governments of the world have ten years to achieve the target.

I have been browsing this forum for over a week now trying to find a place where my thoughts might 'fit in' I find it disconcerting that there are so many 'anonymous' contributors, it is easier to respond to a name even if it is made up!

My thoughts for what they are worth:-

I drive a hybrid and I think it is great, I thought long and hard before choosing it. One of the main factors was the amount of time that I spend travelling by car 'alone' and I see the vast majority of motorists are also alone in a car built to carry a family of 4 or 5. I can see the dileama, having a pool of cars to choose from so that we use the best car for the job is just not an option in finacial terms and certainly not in environmental terms.
However with the Toyota Prius I have a spacious familly car with the economy of a Smart car, job done.

There have been comments that hybrids should go further on electric power and this would not be a bad thing but it should be remembered that most hybrids get their gains in economy by 'not' using the ICE for pulling away, a notoriously wastfull manouver. This is not the whole picture but it also illustrates why a diesel engined hybrid would not show such a marked improvment in economy.

Hybrids are not going to save the world but changing to driving a hybrid brings a change in mind-set leading to a 'lets see how much oil we can save' approach and a lighter style of driving that can be used when driving a conventional car.

Marktime

I'm confused about current Hybrid technology. Is the hybrid battery going to create a new environmental issue in 8-10 years? I live where mass transit is not a viable option, I need a car. But as I've been discussing a more eco-friendly option everyone brings up their concern about the battery disposal/recycle issue. What's the real scoop. I keep my cars until they die... so this rig will be repaired and driven for 200,000 miles or more. I'd love an all wheel drive. But most of all I want a durable, long lasting, environmentally resposible vehicle.

OREGON DUCK

So many consumers express the same concerns and confusion as "Oregon Duck" has. Every technology has its pro's & con's. To help weigh whats best for you, why not speak to some experts. There is an event in Eugene, OR that I help produce that brings all these experts and many eco-friendly products under one roof - AND it's free of charge!! You can come all three days and speak with any one of our vendors, from Toyota's Hybrid experts to Green Eye Auto, who can convert your car to diesel. George from AutoHaus/Euro Asian Automotive will have an exhibit and will be there to answer your questions on how to maximize your mileage and what it's like working on Hybrids. Best of all, you can test drive and check out electric vehicles from Eco-Motion! Visit the "Good 2 Go" Pavilion at the show - it's packed with more environmentally-friendly options AND you can test drive hybrids and EV's. Check it out at www.EugeneHomeShow.com - 3rd Annual Show - All Sustainable products, seminars & exhibitors. Over 50,000 people attend this incredible event. Come find the answers to your questions about eco-transportation.

From Eugene

At why the hybrid car is an in-between option should be clear from a mass point of view. I remember reading a car manual for a petrol car I once owned - it said that carrying 100 kg added one liter of premium per 100 km to the fuel consumption. Take the weight of batteries, a generator and a electric engine and weigh the grand total.

For me an efficient means of transport would be an all-electric two-seater with a 150 km range. It would allow me to do 95% of my yearly milage in an CO2-friendly fashion. Make it look like a Scarver or the cancelled VW tricycle and you can count me in.

Christopher.

"So, who knows? Maybe one day you'll be able to grow cauliflowers to power your Rolls-Royce."

2D thinking again, what a boring man.

Hybrid technology is a poor solution i agree with bob.

the thing is that bob works for the powers that help stiffle innovation, so they can continue to control the populations of this planet.

there is zero-point energy and cars can run on water. why dont we have this now? corporations stop it from happening. if bob had balls, he'd be campaigning for alternative energy instead of kissing the bottoms of corporations and the UN.

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